Margaret Molloy on conversation leadership

Margaret Molloy is not simply the Global Chief Marketing Officer of Siegel+Gale, one of the world’s most notable branding firms (and the “simplicity” company). She is also tops in her own right: Top 50 Most Influential CMOs, Top 100 CMOs on Twitter and, the accolade she may be proudest of, Top 50 Power Women of Irish America.

I got the chance to sit down with Margaret recently, to discuss why and how she now includes conversation leadership in a content marketing program that was already one of the more extensive and well-integrated in her industry. The video will give you a brief introduction to our conversation — but, as always, I encourage you to read the text of the entire interview.

Chuck Kent:  Siegel+Gale has for some time pursued what I would call a very extensive, well-integrated, classic content marketing program. Why did you feel the need to add conversation to it? You’ve got The Global Brand Simplicity Index. There’s a wide range of content on the firm’s blog. Why add things like “Meet the Simplifiers” interview series and “The Future of Branding” traveling roundtable series to it?

Margaret Molloy:  Siegel+Gale is a global brand strategy and design consultancy, and when I joined four years ago my first task was to set a mission for marketing the organization. The mission we set forward was to further establish Siegel+Gale as the simplicity company, by creating content and programs that helped win the right new business for the firm.

With that as a backdrop, we set about thinking through how to deliver on our promise. The benefit I had, personally, is that most of my career I’ve spent on the client side. So, having worked at large financial services and technology companies, I have a good appreciation for the motivations and mindsets of our target audience, the Chief Marketing Officer.

There were a few insights that informed execution of our mission. Insight number one was the reality that there are many, many agencies out there. It was absolutely imperative for us to set ourselves apart with a clear value proposition, and for us that centered on simplicity.

The second insight is the fact that branding is experiencing what I believe to be a renaissance, specifically in brand building. Yet there is significant confusion in the market. So, centering on that insight provided the opportunity for us to convene the conversation around this evolution of branding from words and pictures to experiences.

The third insight is the fact that CMOs, and marketers in general, enjoy convening with each other. But it has to be done with purpose, and it has to be peer-oriented.

CMOs enjoy convening, but it has to be done with purpose and be peer-oriented.

The fourth, and arguably one of the most important, insight, is the very practical issue that we’re a people business. We’re an agency. A consultancy if you will. So the ability to showcase our professionals in the context of these CMOs, while helping them to meet each other, we believed would return significant benefits to Siegel+Gale.  All of these insights landed on an execution, which is, essentially, to convene the conversation around branding, and specifically the importance of simplicity.

Chuck:  Your “Meet the Simplifiers” interview series jumps directly off of The Global Brand Simplicity Index — I believe that many of your interviewees have been featured on the Index. Is that correct?

Margaret: That is correct. The premise is that behind every brand delivering a simple experience are leaders who inherently appreciate the power of simplicity, and who have the capacity to bring it to life. Our thought was, “Why not interview the CMOs, and other leaders of brands who’ve performed well in the index, along with other brands that we see out there that we believe are delivering on simple experiences?”

Our thought was “Why not interview the CMOs we believe are delivering on simple experiences?”

Chuck: Now I suppose that some of these were already clients, but I’m guessing that many were not.

Margaret: Indeed. Many of the brands in the global brand simplicity index, and many of the CMOs whose work we admire, are not clients. Of course, I’d like to think of everyone as future client.

Chuck:  I assume it’s been a pretty good opportunity to meet people.

Margaret: It’s been a good opportunity to meet what I would consider past, present, and future clients. But much more important than meeting someone from a client vantage point is [how it serves us as] students of simplicity. I deeply want to understand that mindset, and the behaviors of the executives who are custodians of brands delivering simple experiences.

From that vantage point the learning that accrues to us is more important than a project or some revenue, which may or may not occur. Asking questions of CMOs, as distinct from pitching them, is vitally important, and powerful, if we’re wise enough to truly listen, and generous enough to share it all with the community.

Asking questions of CMOs, as distinct from pitching them, is vitally important, and powerful.

Chuck:  I imagine you also see that same value of convening people in person in your series “The Future of Branding,” what you call roundtables but what I’d call “educational engagement luncheons” that you hold around the country. How did these become such a hot ticket?

Margaret: Like much of what we do, it begins with an insight, and the underlying insight in this initiative is the fact that CMO’s like to meet each other — but that they are also incredibly busy. Theirs is a multi-fasted road, so they value curation, and our ability to curate a group.

So it begins with the community, who is in the room. And we’re very diligent around making a peer- worthy conversation. In most settings it’s primarily CMOs. The second dimension that I believe contributes to its success is that we’re provocative. The title is “The Future of Branding.” We’re not about giving a pitch. We see to the conversation with some thought leadership, but we hear from the CMO’s. They want to hear from each other. We’re merely convening. And I believe the third component is we’re very thoughtful around the end-to-end experience. From the moment you receive that invitation you know to some degree who else is going to be in the room…through to the experience in the room…and finally the follow up, the nurturing of that relationship.

We see “The Future of Branding” not as a lunch, or point in time, but as becoming part of our community. And we lean on the professionals who join the series for follow-up conversations which help us advance our thinking, and to whom we can show some of our early thinking, to get their opinions and help evolve our solutions. Ultimately it’s about building a community that is inspired by the future of branding.

It’s about building a community that is inspired by the future of branding.

Chuck: I got to attend one of these gatherings as a guest, thank you, and something that was very interesting to me was how you operate more as the nexus of the conversation rather than its owner. I don’t know if you do this every time, but at the one I attended you invited several CMO’s to kick off conversation with their own thoughts, questions and insights.

Margaret: That’s a hallmark of our Future of Branding roundtable. The perspective informing this approach is that we’re all in it together building brands.

I said at the beginning that I believe branding is experiencing something of a renaissance. I believe part of that is — whether we are agency side, or client side, or thought leader side — we’re all fundamentally focused on building great brands. While Siegel+Gale may have a contribution to that conversation, the CMO who today is in-house operationalizing brand building has an equally important contribution to make to that conversation. It’s important for us, certainly, that we have a point of view, but fundamentally we have the confidence that we don’t need to dominate the conversation. We know there is more value to be had when more participants enter into these peer-worthy conversations.

Chuck: I’d like to circle back to what I think of as the cornerstone of your overall program, the Global Brand Simplicity Index, a major study. Most firms would be delighted to just have that laurel to rest on, and leverage. So why do you see conversation, and face-to-face opportunities, as a requisite mix within your overall content marketing program?

Margaret: I believe true content marketing, when done well, is multi-faceted.

In our example, we have, as you mention, our annual study that ranks many of the world’s leading brands based on how they’re perceived to be performing in terms of simplicity. But it’s not sufficient.

We believe we can draw insight from how people learn, and there are essentially three modes of learning. Some people learn from conversation. Others learn from reading. Others yet again are more kinesthetic in their approach. If we borrow learnings from that methodology, it behooves us, therefore, to provide different types of leadership, and different forums to give folks different ways to process that information.

Because, ultimately, it’s not about thought leadership. Ultimately it’s about implementing the learnings, and we’re not successful just because we publish a study. We’re successful when brands improve on their performance within the study, and when our clients benefit from implementing simplicity. To stop at the study would be insufficient.

Ultimately, it’s not about thought leadership.

Chuck: That puts me in mind of something one of my previous interviewees, Andy Crestodina, said, namely that from his perspective all of content marketing should be a contest of generosity. You’re giving away a considerable amount of intellectual property. Was that something that was difficult to sell internally? A lot of people get nervous about that sort of thing, about opening up too much. Or is that just part of the Siegel+Gale culture?

Margaret: I think we bring a generosity of spirit, but also a pragmatism that recognizes that the benefits come back to us. If we do a good job, and convene CMOs in rooms that they enjoy, my expectation is that when they have a need, they may call on us.

Similarly, when we have a new product, or a new service capability that we would like to socialize, I believe that the warmth they have received in that room, and the other friendships they’ve created, will give them some sensibility rendering them open to providing their perspective to us.

The other dimension around generosity is the notion of opening the conversation. We believe the aperture of a conversation has to be wide to reflect the inputs of all the ecosystem that is a party to it. And we also believe that conversation, when done well, is at least bi-directional. The benefits we get from listening are powerful, again assuming we’re wise enough to implement those benefits as we advance the brand building for other clients. Generosity is inherent to it — but not charity, because it is absolutely a powerful business-building tool for us, and it builds our brand.

Generosity is inherent to it — but not charity, because it is absolutely a powerful business-building tool.

Chuck:  Have clients asked you to help them with similar communications or content strategies for them?

Margaret:  Many clients ask us to help them define purpose, and brand strategy, and that’s the ultimate foundation for any of these programs. If you know your purpose, if you know what you stand for, and have coherence with that, that’s a powerful starting point.

Another aspect of this is that clients have indeed requested our support on is what we call employee branding. We help make sure that employees across a given company know what the brand stands for, and have ability to be on brand in various different scenarios. Those are the dimensions they’ve asked for our input on.

On a personal level I certainly get a lot of questions from CMO’s who are looking to develop their brands and also branding programs within their company.

Chuck: You mean the classic “Could I just pick your brain over a cup of coffee?”

Margaret:  Yes — and it’s all good.

Chuck: So for CMOs who may not have started down this road yet, what would be your recommendation for a good first step toward developing conversation as part of their marketing mix?

Margaret: I would recommend a number of step for brands who are seeking to develop conversation.

The first is to know your purpose. Establish a mission for your marketing organization, and once you’re clear on that mission, then reflect on the role conversation would play in that. As a professional services firm, we’re in the business of selling talent, so it plays a large role. It will vary from firm to firm.

The second recommendation is to take a look at your community. Who is part of your ecosystem, and what role should each of those participants play in the conversation?

The third recommendation is to identify what the topics are that people want to talk about — and be a little provocative. What are the topics that will set you a part? What is the conversation that you can own in the hearts and minds of the community?

Identify what the topics are that people want to talk about — and be a little provocative.

The fourth recommendation is to remember that execution is the ultimate differentiator. Don’t start a thought that you can’t finish. Don’t start a conversation that you can’t contribute to — and most of all, share the insight. Be gracious. Think of yourself as a gracious host, as a mental model of how to have a wonderful conversation, and you won’t go too far wrong.

Chuck:  In addition to the conversations with leaders that you convene for Siegel+Gale, you’ve become a considerable leader in your own right, in and outside of your industry.  I’d be interested to know if your personal leadership has an impact on your professional life as you get literally a world of people talking with and about you — and the outreach I’m thinking of in particular is the one you’re wearing right now, namely, #wearingirish. Would you describe that please?

Margaret: #wearingirish is my fun passion project. I started this initiative a couple years ago with the insight that Ireland owns the month of March. All eyes are on Ireland in March, particularly here in the United States. Ireland is a very well established brand as it pertains to entertainment and hospitality and even the tech industry — but our design community, particularly fashion, has been underrepresented.

I decided to wear Irish clothing, fashion, design and jewelry every day, and post pictures on social media, for the entire month of March. It was quite successful. A number of other colleagues and friends across the globe were inspired by the idea and did the same themselves. We achieved quite a significant amount of publicity, both traditional PR and on social media.

#wearingirish is a good example of conversation marketing, because my motivation was to advance a conversation around the importance of fashion design in Ireland

As I reflect on it, it truly is a good example of conversation marketing, because my motivation was to advance a conversation around the importance of fashion design in Ireland and the quality and diversity of product available. It’s been a wonderful conversation starter in my professional life as well when I go to events, whether it’s representing Siegel+Gale or otherwise. Many people come up to me — many I don’t know — to ask questions around #wearingirish, or to share compliments around how they’ve enjoyed the initiative.

Chuck: It seems, in its own way, to reflect your previous perspective, that one needs to be a bit provocative — or in this case creative is perhaps better the word. And to that I would add the need to be truly yourself, which your many examples of conversation certainly seem to reflect, both corporately and personally. So thank you for sharing — and I look forward to continuing the conversation.

For related reading, and my outlined analysis of the Siegel+Gale content marketing mix, scroll to the middle of the post “What Beth Comstock knows about thought leadership (that you don’t).”

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About the Author
Chuck Kent, the Chief Conversation Officer at Lead the Conversation, is a writer, brand strategist, content creator and expert interviewer. He is also a Contributing Editor for Branding Magazine, where he created and moderates the monthly Branding Roundtable (which keeps him in constant conversation with business leaders from around the world).