Ryan Rieches on Conversation Leadership in B2B

Directly across from the office of Ryan Rieches, CEO of BrandingBusiness, is a striking red, yellow and black mural, a patchwork of the distinctive art accompanying some 70 editions of his podcast “Expert Opinion.” It’s a good reminder to the co-founder of this international B2B brand and business strategy firm that it’s no longer enough to tell a good story — today you’re more likely to break through if you also lead a good conversation.

Recently, Ryan and I sat in front of that mural as we discussed his firm’s relatively early foray into conversation leadership via podcasting. The resulting video gives you highlights of that discussion, and a view of the aforementioned wall — but I also encourage you to read the entire interview which follows. It’s an instructive look at how and why conversation is becoming a critical addition to building brands in B2B and beyond.

Chuck: You’re in the business of helping build corporate brands, and you’ve been boosting your own brand for some time through what I call “conversation leadership,” in the form of a podcast.

Ryan: Yes, it’s called “Expert Opinion.”

Chuck: But you started your podcast before podcasting was “hot.” Why?

Ryan: I was invited to be a guest on a couple of business-centric podcasts, to discuss brand strategy, and the topic was very well-received. So I thought, well, what a great way to communicate our point of view, as well as have guests who could share their own leadership thinking.

Chuck: Now, a lot of podcasts are one or two people presenting their own ideas in a jokey back and forth banter. Why did you choose an interview format, bringing on other experts besides yourself or your staff?

Ryan: It was an opportunity to do just that, bring on other voices. It gives us the chance to have a dialogue on a specific topic that we’re very passionate about, that we have our own point of view on — but it’s also interesting to me to layer another expert’s POV on top of our own, whether it’s an industry leader, a client, or someone who, say, wrote a book and wants to have those thoughts shared. In short, it was just a great way to introduce our audience to insights that they could learn from.

Chuck: Do you think creating these conversations, these face-to-face opportunities with other experts, is particularly relevant to B2B, which is your entire focus?

Ryan: Absolutely. I think it’s more important even for B2B than in the consumer world. B2B is highly complex, as you know, and so we have an opportunity to dig in to the nuances, into the processes, into the ways that business-to-business brands are built.

Most people think B2B branding is rational. It’s quite the opposite. It’s very emotional, because there’s a lot more at stake, typically. B2B involves a considered purchase…there’s a long sale cycle…you face multiple decision-makers. So, for whomever is in charge of developing the brand and choosing the branding partner, there’s a lot at risk.

Most people think B2B branding is rational. It’s quite the opposite.

And the decisions that are made coming out of our projects don’t just apply to brand strategy as it relates to marketing — a lot of our strategy and research work also applies to an organization’s core business strategy. So there’s a lot at stake, but the information we share about our processes, and the client’s point of view on how we get to our solutions, can help people mitigate the risks they face.

Chuck: You talk about B2B being not just rational but emotional. Does the podcast conversation format allow you to get more of the thinker, the human being, as well as the thoughts?

Ryan: Yes. I think if we simply did the podcast with myself or other key members here it would come across as selling, and that’s not what we’re trying to do. We are trying to communicate through storytelling, and not just our own. — it adds credibility and more relevance to the conversation to have other guests.

It adds credibility and more relevance to the conversation to have other guests.

Chuck: What do you feel have been the biggest benefits of adding conversation to your content mix?

Ryan: Obviously, it’s a way for us to get our point of view across — but it’s also a way that we can draw attention to our website, which has a lot of other thought leadership content, whether in the form of blog posts or white papers, et cetera.

Organizations are faced with a variety of different branding challenges, and our podcast provides them insights from others who’ve gone through the same challenges. For example, if there’s a merger of equals, we have a podcast for that. If there’s a spinoff, and you’ve got questions about how to make it work, there is a podcast for that. A roll-up strategy by a private equity firm? Employer branding (a real hot topic right now)? We’ve got podcasts for all of those.

The idea is to offer relevant content that people can find, or that we can provide, if, for example, we’re responding to an RFP or are in a competitive pitch. So our podcast listeners can hear from our clients or other experts as they provide the voice of experience, alongside our own thinking, on a highly relevant topic.

The idea is to offer relevant content that people can find — or that we can provide if we’re responding to an RFP.

Chuck: You mentioned interviewing clients — but do you also feature experts who are potentially prospects?

Ryan: Occasionally, yes. It’s easier to get our clients on than prospects, but occasionally that works out quite nicely as well.

Chuck: Not a bad relationship builder then?

Ryan: No, absolutely not.

Chuck: So, how would you advise other B2B CEOs who are thinking about starting their own industry conversations, whether it be a podcast or a seminar series or whatever?

Ryan: I think there’s tremendous benefit in the concept of thought leadership, whether you’re out speaking or at conferences or doing things like a podcast or video series. But you have to commit to it.

You have to commit to it.

How many times have we been involved with our own organization or clients who say, “I want to do a newsletter,” a simple newsletter. They’ll get down the road six months, run out of steam, and it doesn’t happen. I would advise anybody to have a well-organized strategy in the beginning, have a lot of content identified six to nine months out, and be able to commit to it. Yeah, we’ve been doing this podcast for well over five years, for 60, 70 episodes. Now it’s part of who we are and what we do.  So you have to commit to it.

Chuck: Commit it to, so you also get to that “long tail” content effect you’re taking advantage of at this point.

Ryan: That’s right. Now we can really build on it. We have a great foundation of content and we continue to look for topics that we think our audience would be most interested in.

Chuck: Have there been any particular podcasts that stick out as particularly interesting or surprising from all those you’ve done so far?

Ryan: One that comes to mind is client-based. We had a client give their feedback, their input, and, quite frankly, their guidance on brand strategy relating to renaming their existing organization. Now, that is something that is very, very challenging and one of the toughest things we do. It’s so emotionally charged; choosing the new name of your organization does not come lightly.

So for the client executives to provide their point of view on how we guided them through the process  — and then also helped them bring along the executive team and, ultimately, the board to accept the right name — was very, very important. To hear them tell the story had a special impact.

Chuck: It sounds like you would need to be willing to take a little bit of risk, too, if you’re inviting your client to come on and critique your process for public consumption.

Ryan: That’s true — you’re never sure where they’re going to go with it.

Chuck: But a little risk makes it more interesting.

Ryan: That’s right. It’s a real conversation at that point.

Chuck:  You have a fairly considerable investment in content. Can you describe the rest of your content marketing mix and how conversation fits in to that?

Ryan: It goes back to our vision and what do we aim to achieve — that is, to become the leading global authority in corporate branding. If we’re going do that we have to produce some pretty clear thought leadership and some pretty strong opinions. So each of the leaders here is required to write blog posts on topics that they’re passionate about, but also that fit, of course, with what we do and why somebody would want to listen. We’re all authors of the blog, as well as, when appropriate, white papers (and sometimes even videos).

Each of the leaders here is required to write blog posts on topics that they’re passionate about.

Chuck: So thought leadership shouldn’t be coming from onlly one leader then?

Ryan: I don’t believe it should be just one thought leader in a firm. I know there are others who feel there should literally be a single voice within the company, but I certainly don’t agree with that at all. That’s why at BrandingBusiness, we’re all encouraged to do a podcast, create white papers and write blog posts. Yes, we want it all to come from one brand point of view — but we’ve all worked together for so long we pretty much intuitively speak the same way at this point. And we do have one person reviewing all content to make sure it’s uniform and does have that unified voice.

Chuck: Ryan thank you for your time and the inside look at your own conversation leadership — I look forward to seeing what conversations you come up with next.

Ryan: Thank you, I enjoyed the back-and-forth…as I always do.

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Tune in to the BrandingBusiness Podcast “Expert Opinion.”

For additional input on how to use conversation leadership as part of your marketing and new business development mix, read:

Margaret Molloy on Conversation Leadership

What Beth Comstock Knows About Thought Leadership (That You Don’t)

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About the Author

Chuck Kent, the Chief Conversation Officer at Lead the Conversation, is a writer, brand strategist, content creator and expert interviewer. He is also a Contributing Editor for Branding Magazine, where he created and moderates the monthly Branding Roundtable (which keeps him in constant conversation with business leaders from around the world).