The power of interviews for thought leadership

This blog and company are called Lead the Conversation for a simple reason — leading industry conversations, particularly via interviews, roundtables and such, is a powerful way to not only create thought leadership content but to also develop new business relationships.

Case in point:  Mitch Duckler and his new book, The Future-Ready Brand.

 Mitch is the CEO of Full Surge, a strategic brand and marketing consultancy, and this is his second book. The first, , was, as you’ll read shortly, all his thinking, a manifesto based on his unique perspective on building successful brands. So, I was eager to discover why he decided to share the thought leader limelight in this new book, via interviews with over forty other branding professionals. Here’s what I learned —and what anyone who sells thinking should take note of:

Chuck Kent:

Your latest book is based almost entirely on a substantial series of interviews with CMOs. I’ll let people buy the books to discover what those CMOs consider essential for prepping a brand for future success. What I’d like to talk to you about today is how you created this book.

 Many consider a book to be the Holy Grail of thought leadership content, and this is your second book, so you must believe in them. It’s kind of the perfect in-depth showcase for one’s own thinking. My question is, then, even with your decades of experience, why’d you choose to feature the thinking of others? Why’d you give the center stage away to these 43 global CMOs?

Mitch Duckler:

It’s a fair question because it’s a very different situation from my first book, The Indispensable Brand. That was very much about my bread and butter, what I do day in, day out. I could talk about virtually every subsection of every chapter of that book in my sleep, I knew it so well. I did interviews for that book, but I wasn’t reliant on them. It was really based on my 25 years of experience in brand and marketing. So it was kind of a no-brainer.

I don’t have all the answers, so I talk to the folks who do.

 This book was very much about the future, about topics that I’m not sure many people know much about. I certainly didn’t. But I know they are impacting marketing and brand building, so I need to know about them, I want to be able to talk about and educate others on them. But I don’t have all the answers, so I decided to talk to some of the folks who do.

 And it was very interesting. A lot of their feedback was, “You know what? I don’t know either, and maybe I shouldn’t be talking about AI. I’m no expert on it.”  But they certainly are, relative to most, right?

Chuck Kent:

I’m also interested in what your interviewing methodology was for the book.

Mitch Duckler:

Oh, I don’t know if you could call it methodology. What I did was reach out to upwards of 150 or more CMOs to get the 40 plus that I ended up with.

I reached out to150 or more CMOs to get the 40 plus that I ended up with… I would never get anywhere near that response if I was calling up to pitch new business

Chuck Kent:

A pretty good win rate there.

Mitch Duckler:

I was fairly pleased with the response. When I got through to them I’d describe the three sections of the book, on the societal, technological and communications trends impacting the future of brands, and say, “Hey, which of these are you most interested in, or do you feel like you have the most to talk about?”

 Then some of them asked for interview questions in advance, while others said, “OK,  I know what I want to talk about.” And we went from there.  I kept the interview sessions very conversational, preferring not to have a script or a guide. I knew what I wanted, and if they asked me to send some questions in advance I’d think about them and write them out. But most of the time it was just free flowing conversation.

Chuck Kent:

What did you find to be the hardest part of the interviewing?

Mitch Duckler:

Well, a couple of things.

One I referred to earlier — it’s convincing them that they know more than they realize. I was impressed with how much they knew once I started talking to them, yet when I asked up front, they’d say,  “I don’t think I can really talked about AI, I’m no expert on it.”  When I started hearing that over and over, I’d counter with, “Let’s talk about what you do know about AI and what you’re doing with it. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. The book’s about the future for a reason, because nobody is doing it now, so don’t worry. You know more than you think.”

Chuck Kent:

It sounds like interviewing may almost be a better format for discovery than just teeing up a question and letting somebody answer it in writing.

I’m glad I didn’t have a rigid script per se

 Mitch Duckler:

Probably so. A lot of times they would go in different direction, in a good way. For that reason, I’m glad I didn’t have a rigid script per se.

Another reason is that a number of the chapters are interrelated. For example, I have chapters on artificial intelligence, content marketing, gamification and influencer marketing. Well, guess what? Artificial intelligence is impacting all three of the latter. There’s another chapter on extended reality, same thing. So, it just didn’t make sense to be overly scripted. Rather I’d tee up some high level questions and see where the conversation went.

 One thing I should mention as part of my process is that I did have some hypotheses going in. I would informally test those, especially if interviewees didn’t know where to start. I would simply ask, “Here’s what I’m seeing or hearing, do you agree? Have you seen the same thing?”

Chuck Kent:

You can use interviews to confirm a hypothesis, but they can also produce surprises. Do any particular “Aha!” moments come to mind?

Mitch Duckler:

I would say I had the right ZIP Codes for addressing the topics, but I didn’t necessarily know the exact street names or numbers. For instance, I know that AI is impacting marketers’ productivity, win rates and efficiency, but how?

I needed to get interviewees started with a few softballs, letting them talk and flesh it out

 I needed to get interviewees started with a few softballs, letting them talk and flesh it out. And then I was able to bring it together on the backend by synthesizing across the interviews.

Chuck Kent:

People who style themselves as thought leaders are typically eager to get credit for their thinking. So tell me a little more, please, about why you pursued the collective thought leadership of an interview-based book — a format that inherently shares, if not outright gives away, credit.

Mitch Duckler:

I’m very transparent that this book is not solely my ideas. It’s the thinking of others, too. I aggregated and synthesized and connected dots. Without those dots, I couldn’t have done anything. I’m not bashful at all to say, “Look, I interviewed some of the best and brightest minds in marketing and branding, and here’s what I learned.” I don’t feel like I’m giving away credit or that I’m not a thought leader. They all are. I’d like to think I had a critical role, but I couldn’t have done it without them.

You end up as the nexus of an important industry conversation

Chuck Kent:

Well, you may not have been the sole big thinker, but you end up as the nexus of an important industry conversation. I have to believe that that for anyone willing to put that sort of effort into it, there is an opportunity to not simply contribute to a conversation but to lead it.

Mitch Duckler:

Yes.

Chuck Kent:

OK, then, one final question about creating this book. To me, an underappreciated aspect of creating content by conducting interviews is simply that you get to meet people. There’s a certain charm in that. Do you feel like you’ve started any new relationships in the course of developing your book?

Mitch Duckler:

Yes, potentially a few. I’ve stayed in touch with a number of them. Some are very interested in helping me promote the book, and they’re open to joint interviews or speaking engagements, things like that.

But I am a consultant, so I wanted to say, “Look, this is not a ploy to sell you business or to open a door.” And it really wasn’t. This was for the book and the book only. And I wanted to stay true to that.

I’ve stayed in touch with some of my interviewees…that’s been a great byproduct

But yes, absolutely. I have stayed in touch with some of my interviewees, exchanging emails or messaging each other on LinkedIn. That’s been a great byproduct.

Chuck Kent:

See if you agree with what I have discovered by interviewing experts face-to-face: namely, that you quickly realize who really knows their stuff (and who doesn’t).

Mitch Duckler:

Oh, yes.

Chuck Kent:

I’ve got to think that, whether or not you’re intending to get new business, the process makes it obvious to your interviewees that you know your stuff, too. And in a business where you’re selling thinking —which is hard to display on a portfolio page — that should be enormously valuable to you as a business person, no?

Mitch Duckler:

Yes. The one caveat to that is a lot of what we are talking about in this book is not my specialty, and it’s certainly not what I sell. I’m not an AI vendor. I don’t sell gamification efforts or influencer marketing contracts or anything like that. I’m a brand strategist.

 So, there is a little bit of a leap — can leading a discussion of new trends that are impacting branding transfer into credibility for what I do as a brand strategist? We’ll see. Regardless, I need to know what’s ahead, I need to become well versed in these topics,  whether or not that learning leads to new business.

Chuck Kent:

Speaking of new business development, I don’t know if you’ve ever done cold calling in your career, but I’m sure that calling somebody up and saying, “May I feature you in a book?” gets a better reception than, “Can I take 15 minutes of your time to tell you what I do?”

Mitch Duckler:

Oh, unquestionably. You commented earlier on my hit rate for getting the interviews. Like I said, I reached out to 150 or more CMOs and got 40 plus to talk to me. I would never get anywhere near that response if I was calling to pitch business.

Interviewing is a great calling card

So, you’re right, interviewing is a great calling card in that sense — but you have to do it with the right intent. You can’t let it slide into the bait-and-switch of “Let me interview you, and while I’m here let me sell you something.”

Chuck Kent:

No, but you are calling up and offering something of value. Exposure. A showcase for their expertise. But you have to deliver.

Mitch Duckler:

Absolutely.

Chuck Kent:

I really appreciate your time today, Mitch. For all of you reading or listening to this, I’ll also refer you to our conversation in CEO World about Mitch’s new book The Future-Ready Brand. 

 PLEASE NOTE: There are no affiliate links in this article.

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About the Author
Chuck Kent, the Chief Conversation Officer at Lead the Conversation,  uses a video-first content creation method to help busy executives more easily create authentic, compelling thought leadership content – and to lead industry conversations. He is a writer, brand strategist, content creator and expert interviewer. Chuck is also a contributor to CEO World, Sustainable Brands, Convince and Convert and Branding Magazine, for which he created the monthly Branding Roundtable.